Bechdel Test Movie List

/bech·del test/ n.
1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

[[3]] The Hateful Eight (2015) [imdb]

This movie passed 3 of 3 tests (although dubious). It was entered by Evaryont on 2015-12-25 10:10:27.

Reviews

Comments

Evaryont said:
The two female characters that talk to each other are side characters that aren't introduced until about 3/4 of the movie in. Minnie, the owner of the haberdashery, and Jenny, a 6 horse driver from New Zealand, talk about preparing coffee. Minnie also introduces the rest of the household when the four passengers arrive for about 30 seconds.

Daisy, a main cast member, is unrelated and entirely disconnected.
Message posted on 2015-12-25 10:10:27
cherrybomb said:
The two women who converse (Six-Horse Judy and Mimi) talk only briefly before they're murdered.

Jennifer Jason Leigh is routinely beaten, shot and eventually hung while two men watch, calling her death a "nice dance."

Not what I'd consider strong female representation in a movie.

But it passes. Go figure.
Message posted on 2016-01-02 20:57:28
izzy said:
Definitely passes through those two, but Daisy Domergue (Leigh's character) is by far the most important character in the movie, and arguably the "main" character if there was one. Not to mention she's shown to be extremely smart, strong, and capable, far more than the rest of the characters.

A woman having a central role in a gang and bossing gang members around is also practically unheard of for this time period, so not only is Domergue extremely badass, she's so badass that they were willing to put aside the easy excuse of realism.

Like most of Tarantino's films, it definitely has a very strong and positive representation of women:
Message posted on 2016-01-06 00:32:57
Kaitune said:
The film definitely passes the test as it has three named female characters, and two definitely converse to each other about non-man things.

Regarding Daisy, I think the movie does a good job of portraying her character. It is very rare that a movie will portray a female villain, and it is even rarer that a movie will portray a female villain who doesn't resort to the stereotypical feminine vile and whose sexuality isn't played up at all.

Regarding calling names and being beaten up... Well... The movie is called the HATEFUL Eight. Every single character in this movie call each other names when they aren't trying to kill one other... They are basically all despicable people. Also, when she is beaten up, she is hardly ever afraid, and she always comes back with sass and mockery. Even as a prisoner, she oozes danger, and she is definitely not a victim.

In fact, if the movie reserves her to be the only despicable person who has nothing horrible happen to her (or noticeably less than the others) just because of her gender, now that would be rather sexist.

The side female characters are also rather well portrayed as well. Neither of them are sexualised. One is a business owner while another is an independent woman doing a traditionally masculine job.
Message posted on 2016-01-13 17:37:07
Anna said:
Regardless of the Bechdel test (which it passes), I wouldn't say that this movie has a "positive and strong representation of women". Quite the opposite. There's only one woman among 8 men for the most part of the film, and she is chained, routinely beaten, called names, humiliated and threatened all the time. Besides, she's a known villain, plain and simple, while the others (men) are dubious characters of course but still have "moral" reasons for doing what they do. It was disgusting to watch.
Message posted on 2016-01-15 11:43:07
Izzy said:
Aside from Walton Goggins, everyone in the film is a terrible person. Terrible.

Don't make it about Domergue.
Message posted on 2016-01-16 00:02:00
Jack said:
It depends the viewpoint you have. If you're looking for a movie that puts thought into the proper representation of women, this isn't it. Not entirely far-fetched to call it misogynistic, actually. However, I enjoyed Daisy Domergue because how well she fit into the crowd. She was treated as the criminal she was, Warren references her as "no lady I'd ever heard of". It was an objective character, not an afterthought but a fleshed out, important and poignant character.
Message posted on 2016-01-16 02:01:20
Sam said:
The comments reveal a lot about the people makin them. In a film where everyone is treated violently and abusively, the woman is treat the same. And some people see that as sexism...
Message posted on 2016-01-24 17:14:05
Daisy said:
technically, it "does" pass the test, thanks to Judy and Minnie's conversation about coffee and Judy helping with unloading the coach, and then Judy and Minnie introducing the other people in the "haberdashery".

However when we consider the character of Daisy Domergue things begin to be less straightforward.

Daisy is certainly strong, smart and feisty. She is the whole reason for the events unfolding, she is the plot catalyst. She is sassy and unafraid whatever the shit that is dealt her.

She is not sexualised - indeed Warren expresses surprise that anyone would life a finger to help "this bitch".

She is also placed in a very unusual position for a woman in the western canon - where usually whether either Madonna or whore they are more or less superfluous to the real action world of the men.

so far so good

BUT

the film has massive lapses of judgement and these relate I think to directorial and scriptwriting choices of Tarantino which I think are bad calls.

His image of [implied correct] femininity in Hateful Eight - which Daisy transgresses - is more conservative than in other films by him - so you can not cross reference back to his other films

There has been a huge campaign by the Weinstein company to sell the - "all of the characters are as bad as the others - it would be sexist to treat Daisy with kid gloves" message.

I don't buy it.

Daisy is not treated equally to the others - she is treated very differently.

1) there is no discussion of what she actually did - we know about the crimes of the others, Mannix, Warren and Smithers all fess us to committing multiple murders, we only have John Ruth's say-so that she is bad, and even a bounty could reflect a community or family feud as much as an actual "crime", being the sister to a notorious gang leader is just guilt by association

2) she is consistently beaten, despoiled with various bio hazards including vomit, blood, brain matter, subjected to a constant barrage of verbal insults, much of this raises laughter from the audience - this is very different from the treatment of other male characters - and the argument that everyone is awful/hateful no-one escapes does not deal with the fact that Daisy receives different not equal treatment

3) the death scene is extended, detailed and close focussed upon Daisy's suffering - I agree with the Roger Ebert site review that the filming of her death has a pornographic lustre - nothing like this happens to the men - I have gotten into debates with people who think that Warren's castration shows him in an equal degree of pain and terror, but his suffering is not seen as a matter of aesthetic finesse and pleasure


4) there is also a lot of weird fandom stuff out there on fora and bulletin boards that discusses Daisy as "evil" and as a "psychopath" and a "monster", and therefore all that happens to her is just and right and is even a celebratory end to the film - its hardly a positive treatment of women - and it is also a very conservative moral viewpoint about crime and justice - which stands in contradiction to saying in the next breath that Tarantino's universe is highly stylised and does not represent any simplistic moral values - and yet people have just raved on about how good it was to see evil Daisy hanged

there needs to be a lot more debate about the Hateful Eight and the debate needs also to seriously look at the post facto rationales that are applied to excuse the poor calls of judgement.

Too many people chanting the Tarantino is a genius mantra without looking further into the film
Message posted on 2016-02-24 11:48:36
Sam said:
I think you make good points generally, Daisy, but on this-

"1) there is no discussion of what she actually did - we know about the crimes of the others, Mannix, Warren and Smithers all fess us to committing multiple murders, we only have John Ruth's say-so that she is bad, and even a bounty could reflect a community or family feud as much as an actual "crime", being the sister to a notorious gang leader is just guilt by association".

She immediately claims leadership of the gang when Jody is killed, and the other accept. They aren't going to agree with this decision just because she's Jody's sister- she must have done some stuff to show them she's on their level. Plus, her general attitude is that of a criminal. It's reaching to suggest she might be at all innocent.

Also, she does get covered in a lot of crap, and maybe it is done in a way people find funny. But her reaction is very unstereotypical, she's laughing even as blood is spraying in her face, not doing the standard girly scream.

I admit bias- I am a Tarantino fanboy. But I think it's only fair to look at his films in context. Does he have strong female characters? Undoubtedly. The Bride, Jackie Brown, Mia Wallace, O-Ren, Shosanna... I don't think any director should deliberately try to make films that don't offend anyone. Films should represent women well just because directors aren't sexist, not because they've thought "well this could be interpreted as anti-feminist and upset people..."- I want my directors purely trying to make great cinema, not worrying about being offensive.
Message posted on 2016-03-07 00:14:19

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