Bechdel Test Movie List

/bech·del test/ n.
1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

[[3]] Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) [imdb]

This movie passed 3 of 3 tests (although dubious). It was entered by Ben on 2015-04-23 18:17:21.

Reviews

Comments

Ben said:
The movie has at least 6 major speaking female characters: Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Maria Hill, Helen Cho, Laura Barton and Madame B. However, the only interaction that might pass is the flashback discussion between Madame B and Natasha about her 'graduation'. It's dubious on the grounds that Madame B is only named in the credits.

There are 2 other conversations between women: between Natasha and Helen (about Clint) and between Maria and Helen (although we only see them talk in the background, and not their actual discussion).
Message posted on 2015-04-23 18:17:21
Tanzila said:
Natasha and Laura talk about the baby (which is later revealed to be a boy, to be fair). They also talk a bit more in the background but you can't hear them. I think Laura is also named onscreen by someone.
Message posted on 2015-04-25 18:05:48
Ben said:
Oh yeah, I forgot about Laura's talk with Nat on the baby (Clint introduces her to the other Avengers when they arrive). I guess Nat does talk about the baby under the assumption it's a girl, haha.

It is slightly annoying that for a movie with so many female characters (relatively) we need to split hairs on how the movie might pass the Test.
Message posted on 2015-04-26 15:51:48
Kaitune said:
Laura was definitely named on the screen. I think the conversation between her and Natasha about the baby counted, also, Natasha seemed to originally expect the baby to be a girl (considering the "betrayer" joke.)

I was really frustrated during the movie though... There were many female characters in the movie, and a couple have rather prominent roles (Natasha certainly has more speaking roles than Thor, and I think Wanda has more speaking roles than her brother), but they just don't talk to each other about things other than the dudes...until Laura finally popped up, and it was just one conversation.

I guess Madam B also somewhat counted (she might even be named in the deleted scenes since I heard that the movie has about an hour of them). However, the movie seriously should have done a lot better.
Message posted on 2015-04-27 21:32:40
Eric disagreed with the rating and said:
No two women had a conversation about anyone that wasn't a man.

Natasha and her instructor (in a dream sequence) were initially focused around talking about the man leading the test.

Does talking about the baby count as it was in the context of Laura and Clint's relationship?
Message posted on 2015-05-01 02:20:27
sandra disagreed with the rating and said:
It doesn't count.
None of it counts.
The fact that Madame B's name could've been "cut out" is part of the test. Her name wasn't important enough to keep.
It's not about having tons of female characters ... because what's the point if their only purpose is to support the male hero?
Message posted on 2015-05-02 04:10:57
Marzipan said:
@Eric - Having just watched the film a second time I would say the (admittedly brief) conversation between Nat and Laura was very much in the context of their own friendship, which it reveals as something that exists.

And the conversation between B and Widow really didn't strike me as focusing on a man leading the test - Widow refers to the group of (female) trainees and says 'you'll break them'; B replies 'only the breakable ones; you were made of marble' (or something like that). The Widow asks 'what if I fail?' and B replies 'you never do.' There's also some mention of Widow trying to avoid her 'graduation ceremony'. It's very much a conversation about her, and the circumstances in which she was trained - although I grant it's marginal because B is only named in the credits, and the whole thing is a hallucination anyway.
Message posted on 2015-05-02 15:47:59
Kaitune said:
@Eric

If it has to be a conversation that can't be traced to men at all, a bunch of films that pass the test here is going to fail it too. In fact most of my personal conversations that are non-dude-related could be eventually traced back to men somewhere along the line.

I think that would be making the test too strict that it somewhat defeat the purpose of the test in that it is supposed to be something easy to pass that it is mind-boggling how many movies keep failing it.

The baby conversation should still count because it was more about Natasha relating to Laura in that moment rather than Clint, and Laura was also relating to Natasha as a fellow woman (who has something forever taken away from her) rather than as Clint's co-worker.

For example, I think if I talk to my male friend's girlfriend and become friends with her, our discussion about her life shouldn't be considered about her boyfriend just because he happens to be a part of her larger picture or because I knew her through him.
Message posted on 2015-05-02 16:21:55
Jen said:
Natasha and her instructor specifically talked about *Natasha passing the test*, not anyone else.

The baby totally counts, because *they* were specifically talking about "Little Nat." *Anything* could be "in the context" of a man if stretched far enough.
Message posted on 2015-05-03 21:29:33
Lynn disagreed with the rating and said:
There conversation between Black Widow and Hawkeye's wife was about a baby, which was a boy.

I don't recall any other onscreen female conversations.

Disappointing.
Message posted on 2015-05-04 03:43:23
Daphne disagreed with the rating and said:
Natasha and Laura are both named on screen. Natasha asks Laura about "baby Natasha." Laura replies "He's Nathaniel." Natasha then says "Traitor!" to Laura's baby bump. End of conversation. Natasha starts the conversation by talking about something other than a man, but Laura's only reply is about a male. This doesn't pass the test. Madame B is only named in the credits so I don't think that conversation passes either.
Message posted on 2015-05-04 07:49:08
Eirik said:
Whether the unborn baby count is splitting hairs. Nat and Laura is obviously talking about Lauras pregnancy, i.e not a man.

I also seem to remember Nat discussing the Shield evacuation with Maria Hill via comlink, but I might be misremembering and it was with Fury.
Message posted on 2015-05-06 13:48:16
Michael Indo said:
The film passes for all the reasons listed above. But come on, guys (and gals). The Beschdel test is a useful tool, but it's not a replacement for your brain. This is a film that has six major speaking parts for women, based on a comic written 50 years ago for and about men. I'd definitely consider this a win.
Message posted on 2015-05-07 15:26:37
Chuck said:
@Daphne: So, now fetuses with Y-chromosones are men? Anything that's male is a man? If two women talk about a male dog the movie doesn't pass the test?

Message posted on 2015-05-08 03:43:51
Ken said:
Kaitune kind of hits this one on the head. The test is meant to be ridiculously easy to pass but is still failed by an impressively large number of movies. In this case the conversation between natasha and laura is predicated on a personal friendship and concern for the pregnancy, gender of the baby should be irrelevant to the friendship or intentions of the conversation.

Is AoU barely pass? Yes, but it is a pass, which is all the Bechdel Test measures.
Message posted on 2015-05-09 12:43:51
Bre disagreed with the rating and said:
I disagree with this rating because there were hardly any conversations that were audible between women in this film. The baby scene should not count because it was a short scene full of one liners between women about a male baby. It should also not count because if women are going from talking about men to talking about babies, does that really qualify as an honest depiction of character development for women?
Message posted on 2015-05-09 18:49:21
Tim said:
The test doesn't say "named women" or "women who aren't hallucinations/flash backs". No men are mentioned while Nat and Madame B talk. Pass.
Message posted on 2015-05-10 14:43:22
Katie said:
I agree that the film should pass this test. As:
- there are a number of named female characters, both major and supporting
- they do talk to each other, about things other than men, such as the baby (which Nat had guessed was a girl) and her and Laura clearly have a friendship that goes beyond co-worker and co-worker's wife, and I'm sure at some point Helen Cho and Black Widow were talking (at the party) presumably about Cho's work
Message posted on 2015-05-10 20:58:56
Daphne disagreed with the rating and said:
@Chuck, no, male animals do not count and no one ever said they did. Male humans do count. With babies there will of course be room for disagreement. However, my opinion is that because Laura is very advanced in her pregnancy, calls her unborn child by his name, and that because baby Nathaniel is born during the events of the films and then shown on screen that he counts as a male and that conversations solely about him don't pass the test. My opinion would be different if the any of these factors were different. If Natasha and Laura had discussed Laura's pregnancy more broadly then the scene would have definitely passed.
Message posted on 2015-05-14 22:02:14
m disagreed with the rating and said:
Natasha's instructor is not named. Natasha and Laura talk about the baby but the baby is a boy, which still counts as a male. None of these are a pass.
Message posted on 2015-05-15 01:28:11
Emmy said:
Tim, you say "the test doesn't say 'named women'" and it literally says that at the top of the screen in the three rules.
Message posted on 2015-05-16 03:59:09
Beth said:
The movie passes, albeit barely. Are we really considering a fetus a man? That is stretching quite a bit. Natasha and Laura talk about the pregnancy and the purpose of the dialogue is to establish that they have clearly been friends for awhile.

Clear pass.
Message posted on 2015-05-20 02:04:21
Desirae said:
I'm not here to split hairs, but to mention that Joss Whedon is obviously aware of the Bechdel test. When I saw Natasha and Laura's conversation I had the feeling that it was written for the purpose of passing the test. Measuring results can affect outcomes, but not necessarily a bad thing. Many artists should be applying the Bechdel test to their own works.
Message posted on 2015-05-21 16:09:34
Hazel disagreed with the rating and said:
I love this movie Avengers Age of Ultron. The action and special effects scene was so amazing. I like the scenes that Thor talking to Ultron at the last battle. We hope to watch and read more about this movie.
filesharingtalk.com/content/1847-Best-Sites-To-Watch-Movies-Online-For-Free-And-Without-Registration
Message posted on 2015-05-31 01:14:20
Carol disagreed with the rating and said:
If you are counting the conversation with the instructor than it's not a pass. The instructor wasn't named.
Message posted on 2015-06-17 04:22:58
Pony said:
You have to have a pretty messed up and essentialist conception of gender to consider a foetus a man.
Message posted on 2015-08-04 10:51:29
Josh said:
What if Nathaniel turns out to choose to be Natasha and never ends up a MAN?

@ Emmy

The original Test(comic strip) makes no claim about "named women"
Message posted on 2015-08-15 23:46:41
Cesare said:
I only remember that Natasha and Laura had a conversation about Laura's baby.
Message posted on 2015-09-24 06:07:55
deb said:
While it technically fits the test, but maybe the test should be altered. In that the women shouldn't talk about men or babies or children. Ugh.
Message posted on 2015-10-30 03:29:09
joshua said:
The criteria for The Bechdel Test was met. one it had to have at least one female character, two they have to talk to each other, and 3 they have to talk to each other about something other than men. Since they have at least six female characters who talk with each other and about different things besides just men it fits the criteria and the rating is correct.
Message posted on 2016-04-14 16:26:10
Elora said:
@Desiræ:
Personally, I think inserting a scene solely to pass the test is not good (not completely sure if that is what you were saying; if so I agree).

However, (while I may be reading too much into this) I think it is interesting to note that Whedon, who as you mentioned is definitely aware of the test, wanted Carol Danvers AKA Captain Marvel in the movie, albeit not in a large role, and that was the original plan. Female superhero, who the director wanted in the movie, is cut—and the Bechdel-Test-pass scene* talks of betrayal. Interesting, very interesting.

*(Kindly no one tell me Nathaniel makes it a fail, I think its rather reprehensible, for a test about feminism of all things, to count an unborn fetus as a dude).
Message posted on 2016-05-04 00:39:06
Elora said:
@Desiræ:
Personally, I think inserting a scene solely to pass the test is not good (not completely sure if that is what you were saying; if so I agree).

However, (while I may be reading too much into this) I think it is interesting to note that Whedon, who as you mentioned is definitely aware of the test, wanted Carol Danvers AKA Captain Marvel in the movie, albeit not in a large role, and that was the original plan. Female superhero, who the director wanted in the movie, is cut—and the Bechdel-Test-pass scene* talks of betrayal. Interesting, very interesting.

*(Kindly no one tell me Nathaniel makes it a fail, I think its rather reprehensible, for a test about feminism of all things, to count an unborn fetus as a dude).
Message posted on 2016-05-08 21:29:32
Jayden Bramford disagreed with the rating and said:
When you have to justify the reasoning behind why this passed the test, it fails... there are no proper conversations of any kind between two females to the same extent the men are used. Which is a shame because I thought Joss Whedon could do better than that
Message posted on 2016-09-09 05:27:53

> Add comment

> Add review


Back to the list.

Privacy policy