Bechdel Test Movie List

/bech·del test/ n.
1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

[[1]] The Dark Knight Rises (2012) [imdb]

This movie passed 1 of 3 tests. It was entered by Victor on 2012-07-19 12:04:40.

Reviews

Comments

Victor said:
The film has two named women, Selina and Miranda, who never speak to one another. Selina has an accomplice that she speaks to, Holly, but she is not named in the film itself, and their exchanges are exclusively about men.
Message posted on 2012-07-19 12:04:40
Lance disagreed with the rating and said:
Selena tells Holly that everything is going to be okay when she comes in and drops off the cell phone. (Yes, they are talking about a situation that a man had put them in, but it isn't about the man) They had 2 other interactions that were about men (one about the man that Holly had just robbed, one about Bruce Wayne). It's a borderline case, but I do remember thinking during the movie that Nolan seems to have put that scene in for the purpose of passing the test.
Message posted on 2012-07-20 08:58:12
Lance disagreed with the rating and said:
Oh! I just remembered that Selena and Holly actually have a brief 4th interaction (aside from the stand-off, the lines about the mark, and the lines about Bruce Wayne). After Bane has taken over, Selena and Holly are inside one of the houses seized from the rich & powerful families. Selena looks at a picture of the family and says "This used to be someone's home." and Holly replies "Now it' everyone's home. Isn't that what you wanted?"

The interaction is definitely not about a man, so I guess that leaves it up to if Holly is considered a named character. (That's the problem with midnight showings, my memory is hazy when I try to recall everything I saw over that long, long movie.)
Message posted on 2012-07-20 12:37:25
Ashley said:
I wouldn't say that Selina and Holly have conversations exclusively about men...if I recall correctly, at one point Holly and Selina have a conversation regarding the raiding...it went something like "This was somebody's home," to which Holly responds. "And now it's everyone's." I think Holly also says something along the lines of "A storm's coming. Isn't this what you wanted?" Though I agree that Holly was never named in the film and Selina and Miranda never had a conversation, so the rating still stands, I think.
Message posted on 2012-07-20 16:27:14
Marzipan disagreed with the rating and said:
I would say that Holly counts as a named character - she's credited under the name, and is an established character in the DC universe so not just some random woman-at-bus-stop type.

Also, I wouldn't characterise their conversations as being about men - in the bar, for example, Holly comments that it's quiet, and Selina says it won't be for long, in reference to the fight that's about to start. (Granted, some of the people fighting are men, but that's not what she's talking about). Then, later, Selina looks at a photograph of a family and comments that the building used to be someone's home, and Holly replies that now it's lots of people's home - again, some of the previous and new occupants were probably male but that's not talking 'about a man'. I'd say it passes the test, though not overwhelmingly.
Message posted on 2012-07-20 18:13:55
Lance said:
Well, it seems my previous comments were a bit in error. Though obviously based on the Holly Robinson character on the comics, Juno Temple's character apparently has the name "Jen". Obviously, her name wasn't mentioned in the movie. The character did have a name, though (as opposed to being "Catwoman Assistant #1"). I'm guessing this still counts as a fail, though.
Message posted on 2012-07-21 23:29:38
Victor said:
Perhaps I was too hasty with my comment about their conversations being exclusively about men; others apparently have better memories than I do. However, the rating stands unless Holly was named during the film, which I don't think she was. Being named only in the credits or even being an established character in different stories is not enough to satisfy the test's criteria. Regardless, I will take better care with my reporting in the future.
Message posted on 2012-07-22 00:18:45
anna disagreed with the rating and said:
This movie passes the test. Holly and Selina talk to each other after the Bane Revolution as user Lance stated.
Message posted on 2012-07-23 00:35:51
John disagreed with the rating and said:
If Holly isn't named, how do you know it's Holly?
Message posted on 2012-07-23 18:35:14
Nimravid said:
The original rating is correct. The woman with Selina is never named in the movie. Selina and Miranda are named, but they never speak to each other.
Message posted on 2012-07-24 06:07:56
JoJo disagreed with the rating and said:
Her name is Jen in the Movie(I wish they kept it Holly, She is such an awesome character in the comics) and Selina Kyle totally says it. She is named in the movie you guys just didn't pay attention.
Message posted on 2012-07-26 17:38:49
Destructor disagreed with the rating and said:
If Jen is named in the movie (transcript?) then this rating should be upgraded to passing all three tests- a notable first for a Batman film.
Message posted on 2012-07-27 00:01:46
pecunium disagreed with the rating and said:
Jen and Selina have a conversation in which they don't discuss men. After the city has been "liberated" they are the apartment of someone wealthy and they discuss the situation, with Holly telling Selina this was what she wanted.
Message posted on 2012-07-27 01:31:56
Adam said:
If a character's name is mentioned in passing so that a majority of people don't know it, that doesn't meet the spirit of the Bechdel test. Similarly, just because a character is named in the credits does not mean she can be considered "named." The blonde woman may have a name, but it seems arguable if the audience knows it.
Message posted on 2012-07-27 11:41:00
Brian disagreed with the rating and said:
Clearly a majority of people on this thread know her name, so why doesn't she count? She's also clearly a tier above the kind of character who the "named" rule is supposed to cut: she's not some random guard with one line but a fairly important minor character with multiple lines in multiple different scenes.
Message posted on 2012-07-28 07:27:21
Perfectly Idiomatic said:
I know it doesn't count, but it should be noted that Selina's friend is defined through her relationship to a woman and not a man. Shows some progress in the right direction, I feel.
Message posted on 2012-07-29 08:34:00
Ryan disagreed with the rating and said:
I believe the name Jen is mentioned in the film, so technically it should pass fine.
Message posted on 2012-07-29 12:40:17
Ben said:
the movie has two major female characters (Selena/Catwoman and Miranda), both of these women do not speak to each other. Selena has a brief talk with her unnamed roommate about how a family use to live in an apartment and the roommate is never seen again.
Message posted on 2012-07-31 23:37:52
Brian disagreed with the rating and said:
Wait, no she isn't. She's there in the scene in the bar where Daggert's crony is trying to scam her out of her payment, and she's also there in several one-or-two line little conversations.

According to people above she isn't unnamed either: Selina calls her "Jen" at some point in the movie. Unfortunately we don't have a script so we can't confirm this yet, but whenever we can get some scenes on Youtube I'm sure we'll be able to find that line.
Message posted on 2012-08-02 05:07:41
TompaDompa said:
According to the script (or at least A script, not sure if it's genuine), Selina calls her "Jen" once, when she steals the wristwatch. There are several other (minor) diffeences between the script and the movie, though.
Message posted on 2012-08-05 01:24:11
Moonglum said:
I think it's best to look at the spirit of the bechtal test, rather than the letter of the rules. The spirit of the rule that a movie have two named female charters that talk to one another is that the movie not portray a world where me dominate but a few women do contribute significantly, but rather the world,is one where both men and women are significant contributors. The Dark Knight Rises fails in this regard, even though cat woman and holly exchange a few words. Still, cat woman is way cool in the movie. She kills 2 tanks to batmans 1, and she Indiana jones style shoots bane.
Message posted on 2012-08-06 02:14:35
halloumihalloumi disagreed with the rating and said:
sorry, the test isn't about "spirit". nasty misogynist films can pass with flying colours. they pass or not based on whether they meet the criteria. and this does. both women are named and they have several non-man-based discussions.
Message posted on 2012-08-14 23:28:25
Elise said:
This is a bit off the Bechdel test, but it bothered me that in the movie most, if not all, of the police officers and revolutionaries were men.
Message posted on 2012-11-10 19:51:42
James disagreed with the rating and said:
This movie is a dubious pass. Selina Kyle and Holly Robinson (what happened to her again) have brief exchanges about the state of Gotham when Bane takes over.

It's weird that Selina and Miranda never meet, but they are both romantic interests of the main character. So there conversation probably wouldn't pass.
Message posted on 2013-01-26 15:37:40
Joachim Hansson said:
The entire conversation:
JEN
Who’s that?
SELINA
This was someone’s home.
JEN
Now it’s everyone’s home.
Selina stares out at a Tumbler rolling by.
JEN
’Storm’s coming’, remember? This is
what you wanted.
SELINA
No. It’s what I thought I wanted.
Message posted on 2013-05-01 10:51:17
Diana said:
The only disputable thing about the movie's rating is whether or not Holly's/Jen's name is mentioned in the actual movie. If it is, they definitely have at least two conversations that aren't about a male, and therefore the movie passes all 3 divisions of the test. However, if it isn't, then the only test division passed is the first one, because there are no other instances in which the named female characters talk to each other.

In order to determine the movie's real rating, the rule would have to be settled as to whether or not being named in the credits is considered being named in the film.
Message posted on 2013-06-28 15:37:29
Jean said:
If most people have no idea whether or not she was named and several people thought her name was Holly after watching the movie, then the movie fails.
Message posted on 2013-07-31 21:06:39
Amber disagreed with the rating and said:
The rules are simple and laid out clearly. What people seem to be less clear about is what constitutes a named character. How about we go with characters THAT ARE GIVEN NAMES IN THE CREDITS. The Dark Knight DOES have unnamed characters like "Doctor" or "Sewer Thug #1", Jen is not one of these. She is a NAMED female character and therefore The Dark Knight Rises passes the Bechdel Test based on the arguments stated. The rules say nothing about how memorable the character's name is, only that she has one.
Message posted on 2013-08-12 07:22:08
mapsmith disagreed with the rating and said:
2 points that prove Jen's a named character :
1. Selina names her friend / says "Jen":
"I told you not to try it with the assholes, Jen."
"They're all assholes"
"Okay, the assholes that hit"
"Don't know what he's so upset about..."
"Probably the watch"
"Watch?" --this entire conversation ought to pass the movie, since it's 2 named women talking about the craft of thievery. If you disagree and think its about a relationship with a man, then I challenge you to make this about a man:
JEN
"Place is a little dead.
SELINA
(takes envelope, tense)
It'll liven up in a minute, trust me.
JEN
Everything okay? SELINA
Great. Catch you later.

2. I watch assisted by closed captioning: every time Jen talks it says "Jen", naming her, in writing, for anyone who's watching.

It's a token method of passing, but surely it fits. Dark Knight Rises should get a pass grade.
Message posted on 2013-11-12 16:35:59
jim disagreed with the rating and said:
Agree with Amber. If she is named in the credits, she is a NAMED character. If you were to put on a play of this, you would say to the actress, "you will be playing jen" not, "you will be playing selena's unnamed friend" Pass.
Message posted on 2013-11-12 19:30:43
C.J. said:
Although the script does include the part of the conversation where Selina calls her Jen, in the actual film it jumps straight to "Don't know what he's so upset about," meaning she is not actually named in the final cut of the movie.

I don't think names that are only given in the credits or closed captions should count. If they're not named in the actual film, then the effect is the same as if they were "Woman #2" in the credits, especially considering most people don't read the credits or closed captions.
Message posted on 2014-05-12 06:25:13

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