Bechdel Test Movie List

/bech·del test/ n.
1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

[[1]] The Muppets (2011) [imdb]

This movie passed 1 of 3 tests. It was entered by yayorc on 2011-11-30 17:08:15.

Reviews

Comments

Megan disagreed with the rating and said:
The movie passes- Miss Piggy and Miss Poogy, both female, named characters, have a short conversation before fighting.
Message posted on 2011-12-03 20:13:51
yukondawn said:
It was my impression that "Miss Poogy" is a male character (boar?) in drag. So, I agree with the original rating that the female characters do not converse.

Miss Piggy and Mary (Amy Adams) also share a song, but they are in separate locations and do not appear together in the scene, so I don't think it counts either.
Message posted on 2011-12-05 03:36:56
Lisa disagreed with the rating and said:
Miss Piggy and her assistant at Vogue (Emily Blunt) have a short conversation before "Muppet Man" comes into her office. Mary and the waitress at the diner (Sarah Silverman) also converse when Mary comes in and asks for a table for one. Then Mary and Miss Piggy sing “Me Party” together (though not to each other and not in the same location, but they sing back and forth in the song). I can’t recall if Veronica Martin (Rashida Jones) ever speaks directly to Miss Piggy or Mary. She very well might.
Message posted on 2011-12-06 19:36:40
arfarfarf disagreed with the rating and said:
Miss Poogy is listed as a female Muppet on Muppet Wiki (though she is a vaguely transphobic one in my opinion), and if this is correct then the conversation between her and Ms. Piggy flies. The brief exchange between Ms. Piggy and her receptionist is, I think, technically about a man (they are discussing some guy who "has an appointment"), so I think it fails the test there. Mary and the waitress at the diner have a passable conversation.
Message posted on 2011-12-09 16:24:21
dave said:
Do "conversations" (or shared songs) that are essentially about not needing a man count as not being about a man?
Message posted on 2011-12-27 17:34:01
FD said:
in response to above category: isn't part of the test that the characters must be *named*? We know the name of the waitress because she's famous, but she isn't named in the movie is she?
Message posted on 2012-02-01 21:37:50
Matty said:
It's hard to gauge when it comes to Miss Poogy, she very well may be a female, but it was my impression that she was a crossdresser, and probably not even actually transgendered. (as an aside, I feel a bit ridiculous talking about the gender psychology of a muppet, or moopet as the case may be...)
Message posted on 2012-04-09 19:02:27
Scott disagreed with the rating and said:
I think when you have to bend over backwards to decided whether or not a character is female, it fails.
Message posted on 2012-06-22 15:00:17
Scott disagreed with the rating and said:
Also, while the conversation between them isn't exactly about a man, Miss Piggy's motivations for even being there, and thus the conversation/fight, is certainly about her obsession over a man.
Message posted on 2012-06-22 15:02:54
Beauregard said:
Note that the conversation between Piggy/Receptionist and Mary/Waitress are not with named characters.

However, if Miss Poogy IS female, then it passes because Piggy's fight with her was about being replaced, and not about her obsession with Kermit.
Message posted on 2012-06-22 22:43:53
Edward disagreed with the rating and said:
For the record, they say when referring to Miss Poogy, "Well, SHE'S sorta like Miss Piggy." Also, there's the whole thing where she's called MISS Poogy.
Message posted on 2012-06-23 03:05:19
Squall said:
Ehhh here's the thing. Ms piggy, while a female character, is voiced by a male. So where does that put us?
Message posted on 2012-07-03 10:55:18
Grape said:
Manymale characters are voiced by girls, and vice versa (LSP in the tv show adventure time is voiced by a guy).
Message posted on 2012-07-06 15:14:01
EmilyKane said:
re: characters voiced by opposite gender - Bart Simpson.
Message posted on 2012-09-16 18:00:17
Shawna disagreed with the rating and said:
I thought Miss Poogy was just a butch female character. Women are allowed to be butch, aren't they? Also, I say that if she goes by "Miss" she is self-identified as female and should be counted as such, whether she is transgendered or not.
Message posted on 2012-12-14 09:59:10
Gaith disagreed with the rating and said:
"However, if Miss Poogy IS female, then it passes because Piggy's fight with her was about being replaced, and not about her obsession with Kermit."

Given Shawna's correct observation that Miss Poogy seems to be female if for no other reason than self-identification, I think Beauregard is right to call this a very narrow pass. A feminist movie? No way... But still, a pass.
Message posted on 2013-02-12 00:36:08
Edith disagreed with the rating and said:
Miss Poogy self identifies as a female, and has a conversation with Miss Piggy that isn't about a man. So yeah, I think it has to be passed.

But Jesus, given how many times women manage not to speak to each other-I mean, Amy and Miss Piggy? Camilla? they spend a lot of the movie in the same place, and given that women who appear of indeterminate gender are comedy villians-it really does not deserve to pass.
Message posted on 2013-04-20 23:06:03
Mary disagreed with the rating and said:
a. Miss Piggy and Miss Poogy have a conversation about their careers. It is about self identification.

b. Miss Piggy reboot is not obsessed with Kermit. She got tired of his shit and of him not accepting her as she is and she left. She then went on to have a fabulously successful life. I think it is a bit unfair to characterize her as "obsessed" when she clearly is strong, independent and in love. Those three things are not mutually independent.

c. How has no one even talked about the characterization of Mary? A hyper-feminine , people pleasing SHOP teacher -- seriously if this doesn't defy expectations then I don't even know. However, even Mary has her limits. When Gary treats her badly -- she realizes she doesn't have to take it and leaves.

I really don't understand how this movie could be characterized as anything BUT a feminist movie. If I had a daughter -- I would be proud to show her this movie.
Message posted on 2014-02-09 01:13:52

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